FAILING MARRIAGES AND INCREASING DIVORCES – THE SEQUEL
Hi Everybody. As Shyam said it really seems ages since I posted on my blog though it is actually less than a month. So time moves much faster in the blogworld.
The topic of my last post was so hot and the comments so overwhelming that I could not help but put up a sequel to that post in which though I intend to convey some message but mainly summarise my reply to the comments in the original post.
I saw quite a lot of view points that marriage is a dying institution and that live-in arrangement has come of age and equally accepted as marriage. In fact Shyam interestingly pointed out that live-in arrangement is also recognised to be a binding relationship in the eyes of law. But Shyam, my point is do we need a law to keep our marriage alive. Then marriage is nothing more than a business relationship.
Marriage is like living in your own house and live-in relationship is like checking into a hotel. You home is a responsibility which you cannot leave easily, but you need not even think twice before checking out of a hotel. And the ultimate fact is that you can live forever in your own house, but not so in a hotel, you have to check-out one day or the other. In short Marriage is for responsible ones, Live-in is for irresponsible ones. It is very unfortunate that it is the female folks who advocate live-in relationships, more as a tool to assert their economic independence. With due respects, female blog friends, I consider live-in relationship as encouragement of immorality and it can never be a tool to display your strength. By adopting live-in, you are only giving more leverage to men to check-out whenever they want.
It is again very sad that Divorce is looked upon as a solution to the problem, rather than a problem in itself. And it is also felt that this solution has come up as a result of greater awareness, intolerance to incompatibility and economic independence that the we are all enjoying in the current world. But just imagine if our parents also exercised this option of Divorce during our childhood and each of them went on a cycle of marriages and divorces, then what would have happened to our childhood. We would have in all probabilities ended up in the wrong side of the society and attributed it to our disturbed childhood. In that case, words like awareness, economic independence, intolerance etc… would not have been in our dictionary itself. Today we are able to talk big words only because our parents stayed together not only for themselves but also for us.
Friends, let us learn to look at marriage as part of our life cycle like birth, childhood etc. Just as we cannot replace any chapter of our life cycle we cannot replace marriage too. Marriage as a chapter in our life is meant to change our life from youth to matured adults, from irresponsibly independent to responsible and caring. Let us understand that the impact of marriage is not just limited to two individuals, marriage is a responsibility towards your spouse, your children and for creation of a more morally displined society. Marriage is is all about CARE and BEAR and never just DARE and BARE.
Please understand that our mothers stayed in their marriage not because of economic dependence, but because they looked beyond themselves and saw marriage as a responsibility and not as a status symbol. Even in your professional life if you are not responsible, you are chucked out of your job, then why the same cannot be applied to marriage.
I am not saying there should be no divorce at all, but it should be viewed as a extreme solution, not as a tool for independence.
The topic of my last post was so hot and the comments so overwhelming that I could not help but put up a sequel to that post in which though I intend to convey some message but mainly summarise my reply to the comments in the original post.
I saw quite a lot of view points that marriage is a dying institution and that live-in arrangement has come of age and equally accepted as marriage. In fact Shyam interestingly pointed out that live-in arrangement is also recognised to be a binding relationship in the eyes of law. But Shyam, my point is do we need a law to keep our marriage alive. Then marriage is nothing more than a business relationship.
Marriage is like living in your own house and live-in relationship is like checking into a hotel. You home is a responsibility which you cannot leave easily, but you need not even think twice before checking out of a hotel. And the ultimate fact is that you can live forever in your own house, but not so in a hotel, you have to check-out one day or the other. In short Marriage is for responsible ones, Live-in is for irresponsible ones. It is very unfortunate that it is the female folks who advocate live-in relationships, more as a tool to assert their economic independence. With due respects, female blog friends, I consider live-in relationship as encouragement of immorality and it can never be a tool to display your strength. By adopting live-in, you are only giving more leverage to men to check-out whenever they want.
It is again very sad that Divorce is looked upon as a solution to the problem, rather than a problem in itself. And it is also felt that this solution has come up as a result of greater awareness, intolerance to incompatibility and economic independence that the we are all enjoying in the current world. But just imagine if our parents also exercised this option of Divorce during our childhood and each of them went on a cycle of marriages and divorces, then what would have happened to our childhood. We would have in all probabilities ended up in the wrong side of the society and attributed it to our disturbed childhood. In that case, words like awareness, economic independence, intolerance etc… would not have been in our dictionary itself. Today we are able to talk big words only because our parents stayed together not only for themselves but also for us.
Friends, let us learn to look at marriage as part of our life cycle like birth, childhood etc. Just as we cannot replace any chapter of our life cycle we cannot replace marriage too. Marriage as a chapter in our life is meant to change our life from youth to matured adults, from irresponsibly independent to responsible and caring. Let us understand that the impact of marriage is not just limited to two individuals, marriage is a responsibility towards your spouse, your children and for creation of a more morally displined society. Marriage is is all about CARE and BEAR and never just DARE and BARE.
Please understand that our mothers stayed in their marriage not because of economic dependence, but because they looked beyond themselves and saw marriage as a responsibility and not as a status symbol. Even in your professional life if you are not responsible, you are chucked out of your job, then why the same cannot be applied to marriage.
I am not saying there should be no divorce at all, but it should be viewed as a extreme solution, not as a tool for independence.
27 Comments:
Hi Everybody. Please feel free to comment. Even criticism would be a compliment.
By hari, at 5:39 AM
care and bear / dara and bare.....that was awesome hari....i agree with you completely...great job ....kudos
By kaatss, at 7:08 AM
I was going to express my views on this subject. But looks like your mind is made up. Dropping words like 'immorality' while talking about people and relationships...ouch! I don't think you want a discussion. You'd prefer consent, right?
By ammani, at 7:56 AM
a good sequel hari, it's true that divorce should be used as a extreme solution but not for independence. I don't think live-in arrangements work out.
Marriage makes us responsible, sensible & caring. People need to know that it's a commitment to each other but not a child's play where u can walk out whenver u r upset. coz as u said there is a destiny of more than 2 lives involved in it...
By Anonymous, at 1:35 AM
Hi Kaats,
Thanx for coming by.
By hari, at 2:04 AM
Hello Ammani,
Please spell out your comment. I am written this post with a very open mind. I strongly oppose breaking of a relationship, not necessarily marriage and your comments would go a long way in understanding different outlooks and removing my mis-conceptions, if any.
About live-in relationships, the word itself spells non-commitment and anything done without a commitment is not moral and can never be successful, be it your work, your domestic duties or your social commitments.
By hari, at 2:05 AM
Hello Vidya,
Welcome to my blog. I agree reasons for divorce is very personal. What I say is marriage is a rule and divorce is an exception to the rule and should be used in only extreme necessities. But nowadays we are copying the wrong side of Western culture so much that Divorce is seen as a tool of Independence or power by both men and women.
By hari, at 2:05 AM
Hi Reflex,
Do we get the parents of our choice. But do we not love our parents howsoever they are. Do we divorce them or seek a different set of parents of our choice. So why not the same rule be applied to with our spouses too. Nobody is bad in character. It is the situation that brings out the evil within us. So let us try to fight the situation and not the spouse.
By hari, at 2:05 AM
Hi Chandu,
Marriage is as much a pre-defined chapter in our life as childhood, youth or old age. And if we try to tamper too much with it, we might go against nature's policy and the result will only be a Tsunami.
By hari, at 2:10 AM
Hari
I am not sure if I agree with the entire post. I sympathise with the concept but I think a marriage that takes or compromises one's independence needs to be reviewed. Pls understand that independence does not mean doing trivial things like night out with friends or movies or what not. It means having the liberty to make a good decision and be able to go with it without having to re-evaluate it for stupid considerations of the spouse.
I am not advocating live-in relationships but if two like minded people who love each other believe that they can live together and share all that they need and want to, without binding themselves with marriage, they should be free to do so. The situation is like the concept of love in movies. Its so misrepresented, that people think its wrong. I know of so many friends who have had a long live-in relationship and enjoyed it a lot. Some ended in marriage and some just went their own ways. But the experience was something they really liked when it was good.
Finally, times have changed and women are more independent than they were in our previous generations. They are finally getting to make big decisions on their own and if some divorces are occasional off shoots of that, so be it.
A divorce is better than a false marriage. But the decision of the marriage being true or false, needs to be made after very serious though and consideration.
By The Last Blogger, at 1:11 PM
I agree with the Last Blogger and with ammani too. Hari if you want a discussion and you are open to discussing your writings and views MUST express that.
You have made up your mind about how a marriage should be based on our experience and what you've seen. You've made up your mind about Relationships based on what you have known. Which is not necessarily true, as individuals differ.
I too sympathize with your message and write up and agree with the Last blogger when he/she says that independence doesnt mean wanting to wear short skirts, and go out and party... it has much to do with the permission of decision making. Infac t,the fact that a woman has to ask for the permission of her husband to take such trivial decisions can become a burden given a situation and person.
I have been doing HR training and in the process learnt that we all operate from our Filters. And one of our biggest filters is our background and bringing up. Because you've obviously grown up in a compact family where the father and mother learn to tolerate, you make such conclusions. Because of the choices my parents made for their own lives, i never lived with my parents we are almost strangers today. So i hold a different view in that way.
yes what parents do and dont do does reflect in their child's life, but for the sake of that not to strive for your independence and freedom...i dont agree.
I've met many women who are abused verbally and physically by their husbands and they stick in the marriage for the sake of their children. But the same children end up abusing their own mothers, knowing they take it.
I've known men who are daily abused by their wives...really badly...and the man sticks around in the marriage for the children...do you think the children learn the right things then? Who teaches and who learns?
One only takes and the other always gives..such relationships do suffer.
I have a live-in relationship, and i know that i am far from Immoral. Dont judge my dear, open your mind!
By Unknown, at 4:39 AM
Hi Hari,
You know what, I think that marriage IS a business contract when you pare it down to its basics - especially in the case of "arranged" marriages. Kind of like "I'm giving you my daughter (and probably dowry as well, although we wont call it that) who will take care of you and your family. Now your duty is to make sure that she is taken care of too". Cynical perhaps, but nevertheless true.
Marriage is a business relationship in the eyes of the law, too. The law comes into play when a marriage breaks down, ensuring that both parties go their separate ways after an equitable resolution. Now tell me this isnt like a business!
Anyway, what raises a marriage above the status of a business transaction are mutual affection/love, respect, understanding and faithfulness. If these qualities are present in a live-in relationship, then it is as good as or even better than marriage because the two persons involved have made their choices without society's pressure or the need to show "respectability" to others. People can be responsible AND committed without being married, you know.
I'll agree with you that divorce should be the last resort. But what makes you think that people get divorced for fun or because it's "easy", Hari?
Unless they're "celebrities" who DO appear to regard marriage and divorce as publicity stunts, most people only go in for a divorce when the situation is untenable. And those are only the ones who have the courage - and the means - to follow it through. I'm sure there are millions of people who put up with misery in their marriages because they cant do anything else!
Divorce IS a tool for independence from controlling or abusive spouses, and I dont see what's wrong with that.
By Shammi, at 8:49 AM
Dear Hari:- Normally a detachd and composed person as I am,I was moved almost to tears on seeing your comment.In your abundant respect for elders and love to others,U have eulogised me.I am an ordy person,And infact I am lucky to have 2 lovely boys,a very accomplished D-in-Law( she is more a daugter) and a very active and intelligent grand son.I am also proud of my wife.I sometimes even feel whether I deserve all this kindness from the Lord Almighty.
as for the topic raked up again after march there will be myriads of opinion according to one's need,experience,economic well being
Family circumstances ad upbringing.
U havr rightly asked about thr choce of parents and most people were silent on that.A strong point.
In our country many institutions including marriage are made to stand for a long tome to come if not eternity.I am sure just because of changing attitude,times
and convenience of a few,The institution itself will never crumble.
Let peace,prosperity and plenty decend on U during "Paarthibha"
By Aero Dillon, at 3:05 PM
Forgot to add - you cant choose your parents, you cant do anything if they're NOT good parents. But you CAN choose your life partner - and if after enough adjustments and compromises, things dont work out, divorce gives people another chance to find the happiness they're looking for.
By Shammi, at 3:38 PM
Well, I'm VERY Late out here nevertheless:
Reading your post I did not find that it was closed to discussions - agreed you've condemned certain deeds ... I just have to tell one thing - By condemning something, NO BODY has EVER listened or heeded the wisdom behind the condemnation; most of those who chose to question condemned deeds have chosen 'damnation' by going through with it just because it would set them as different! How much more stupid could people be?
Moreover condemnation does not close a topic for discussion ...
Me pats you at the back ... good job.
Live in is a 'stupidity' engaged into by women who are very insecure and the mistake costs them the happiness of their whole life. Every woman who engages in contradicting this question needs only to ask herself one question: "Pehle Isthamaal karo, phir bharosa karo. Isthemaal ki anth kab hai?" Unfortunately, (fortunately) marraige is one relationship where Isthemaal aur Bharosa are hand in hand; when one ends and the other begins or when each begin cannot be pin pointed ... You wanna try to pin point and destroy your own mariages - go ahead.
Women you wanna be USED and discarded - go ahead - No body stops you. YOU Be your own Judge. Its just that you know what you are doing - later dont shift blames and make life miseable for ebery body. Because that's where all this is heading.
It is irresponsibility that one chooses to live - in ... and when you've had it with quiet a few and are bugged ... what then? Try try try till you succeed?
Relatinships are complicated in their simplicity ... Wise ones know to keep love alive in life with just one - I TOTALLY Disagree to statements like - Marriage is Dull and Boring - IT IS NOT - Learn to bring life into marriages instead of trying to look for life and love outside marriages and then hopping on to divorce ...
Well, Hari ... shall stop by later - I think this much is enough said :-)
By Loveena Raj, at 10:54 PM
There's a lot of assumption here...
Why does a live in relationship mean "SEX"? Is it not possible to have one without it?
By Unknown, at 7:06 PM
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By Unknown, at 7:06 PM
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By Unknown, at 7:06 PM
Hello everybody,
First of all let me clarify that this post was definitely open for discussion and giving my opinion on live-in relationship does not in any way mean that it is not debatable.
With due respect to the sentiments voiced by ammani, lavanya and Shyam, though they have strongly come out against the question of morality in Live-in relationship and Shyam at best has classified it as equal to the marriage, nobody has given any reason with clarity that why it is preferred over marriage.
Once you search for an answer to that question, the question of commitment comes, which the basic difference between marriage and Live-in. And when I used the term immoral, I did not include only sexual immorality, but immorality in its widest of definitions and lack of commitment to one's relationship, duty and responsibility is also very much immoral.
From the comments above, Live-in relationship is preferred for two reasons. First there is no prior commitment and the second it is an opportunity for two people to get to understand each other fully before they get into any permanent relationship. From my own experience and from the opinion I have gathered from a lot of my friends and relatives, there is a unanimous opinion that one can substantially and not fully get to know ones spouse only after physical relationship is established and never before that. And even after physical relationship there still remains some aspects of your spouse which only situations and circumstances can bring out.
So if somebody tells I can live with a person for say five years without any physical relationship and get to know him or her completely, it is just absurd. And in case you say, that we Live-in and have a physical relationship just to get to know each other completely before any commitment, then it is nothing short of immorality.
By hari, at 7:45 PM
I'd rather not debate about whether or not this is a debate, but cut to the chase.
It is live-in relationships which need more work and test a persons resilience more sharply, than do marriages. You need a lot more love and affection, a great deal more personal commitment to remain in a live in relationship. In marriage, you are basically driven by the fears of rejection and ostracisation by the people who say they love you - parents etc. - but who seem only to want you to do what they want.
I think you should differentiate between what you would like to do, and what you would like other people to do. I for one think that marriage in many if not most cases is completely immoral as it forces people to remain in relationships which have long outlived their honest lifetimes, and for them to be foisted on people because you think that anything else is immoral, is simply dictatorial and has nothing to do with true morality, and is in fact immoral and megalominiac, because you want to control other people's lives with your opinions.
Marital relations are not the same as parental relations... because you don't have to sleep with your parents and your parents' don't carry your baby for 9 months, and because if you leave your parents you don't have to give alimony, and because the choice of who you marry is made after you are born and of mature age, whereas it was your parents who chose to establish a relationship with you (by conceiving you)... amongst other graver things.
So any comparison on that front would only serve emotional and not practical purposes.
Marriages are a haven for private criminals who can emotional badger and spiritually castrate their partners and it is important to allow a method of coming out of such a marriage. Also sometimes two well intentioned people find that they are just not compatible, and should have an option to leave their relationships. But your argument would have it that such a divorce would be quite unallowable because you find it incompatiable with your most desirable social behaviour.
So should there be marriage? Yes for people who feel that it is important to consumate their relationships in that manner.
So should their be live-in relationships? Yes for people who believe that they will be happy living that way.
Are live-ins immoral? No, because people enter them with each others consent and often want to understand each other on their way to marriage.
Should divorce be allowed? Yes.
By Anonymous, at 4:45 AM
Hi there Gautham, Just one Question after having read your comment; "Why then should there be an institution called Holy Matrimony?"
Live - in and Marriage; of the very many differences I can bring out - I'll let you into just one : A and B in a Live in relationship; A is very pretty, C wants to have A; Rapes her - Case in court - Do you think the law protects her? Do you have any idea as to the 'filthy' questions the woman will have to face? The same if it happens to a married woman ... The law protects her. Yes there are 'filthy' questions put forth to her too - but no body questions her 'charectar'.
As for the other statements as marriage being for private criminals - well my friend - EVERY ONE is a Criminal ... The ones who get to be 'termed' as Criminals are the unfortunate ones who get caught.
When a child is born and needs to be brought up; as soon as the child begins to walk, talk leave it to fend for itself without providing for education ... That's LIVE IN for you.
Takes wisdom to understand knowledge is learnt EVERY DAY, every moment in life - one learns new lessons ... you could either learn them from educational Institutes or on your own ... The only difference is - When learnt on your own - you become Arrogant and Proud ... learning in the company of others makes one 'humble' and appreciate the need for society and company.
I see Live in; amongst all others as an arrogance indulged to by youngsters who want to as you say 'get to know each other better before marriage ... ' Believe me you will know only so much as your spouse lets you know may that be in a day or your whole life.
YOu're only fooling yourself if you think you can know your spouse either after physical consumation of a relationship or before - There is more to life than Sex or Marriage or Live ins!
I see people living in and telling me that it actually lets them understand each other as insulting each other and their life. No they are not doing anything immoral if you look at it from this point of view - It is just that they send across a clear message to each other - I DONT TRUST YOU. I've made up my mind about it - and giving you time to leave ... Its a Diplomatic ploy!
As for marriage being 'imposed' - NO - There's a choice - One can remain unmarried - No one's forcing any one. If you cant stand up now and say - I dont want to be married, you never will be able to talk up for anything and that's where everything goes wrong - Its not the very bond of marriage - its the way this bond is bound ...
Live in there in no bond, and no you're not bound either but you are gagged and suffocated ... And no that is not applicable in a marriage which is entered into by two people in love who respect each other ...
When there is no LOVE and no Respect for each other a 'marriage' fails.
In a Live in there is too much of love and absolutely NO RESPECT for each other, for ones own self and for ones elders and society ... Today if you cannot respect the wishes of your parents tomorrow dont expect your children to respect you and what sort of a generation are we bringing up ... one which looks into ones own selfish desires and would not respect ones own self in the persuit of ones heart's desires ...???
Unfortunately, THIS is EXACTLY what I am seeing ... A generation which does not respect ones own self. When you dont respect your own self how would you respect others?
Yup, go ahead Live In ... fool yourself that he respects and loves you and that is why he is living in with you. Close your eyes to the fact that if he loved you he would take the time to know you ... spend an evening with you or just talk or write... If he respected you he'd want to win over your parents and take you to be his one and only with pride and give you dignity as his wife ... Live in - be his whore ... That's what the ultra modern woman chooses now - Pathetic.
By Loveena Raj, at 2:24 AM
To Hari and Trouvaille
Firstly, I am not comparing to see which is better amongst a live-in relationship and marriage. I am happily married to my girlfriend of long and heartily recommend marriage to all and sunder. That said, I dont think a live-in relationship is a bad thing, if both parties know what they are getting into. And please dont always confuse a relationship with sex. They are mostly independent of each other and any attempt to unify the two is incorrect.
Most of the visitors here have seen the many rants that fellow bloggers in marriage eligible state have put in the recent past. While a person can choose to be unmarried, try doing it and you'll know all the crap you have to take for it.
Some of the posts here assume that the life of a woman after a life-in relationship is dead and that once married, the concept of Holy Matrimony binds the two people forever. That is wrong. Relationships work. Some dont. Itll be stupid to put up with BS beyond a point in a marriage. Thats why and when divorces happen. Not because someone has fun going through a divorce.
Respect for one another and an understanding of each others problems is all that is needed. Everything else, be it a marriage or live-in relationship is secondary.
By The Last Blogger, at 11:22 AM
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By The Last Blogger, at 11:44 AM
Hari,
First time in your blog.
Hari regarding this responsible/ iresponsible business, i think responsiblity is clearly dependent on an individual's choice and perspective.
Just because someone has a live-in relationship does not necesarily mean they are irresponsible and just because two people are married does not mean they are responsible either.
I know couples who fool around each in their own ways.
I know people who will die for each other even when they are not married.
This morality/immorality and responsibility and irresponsibility issues are all too independent and subjective hari.
Responsible parents bring up responsible kids.Married or unmarried.
By expertdabbler, at 7:10 PM
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
By Roberto Iza Valdés, at 12:45 AM
Happy holidays.
By Roberto Iza Valdés, at 6:20 PM
Hey,Happy Holidays.....
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By Bimatoprost, at 6:10 AM
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